RF Generation Message Board

I found out today that it is a law in Washington State that all public schools have to say the Pledge of allegiance.  Doesn't anyone else think that forcing people to say it kind of goes against what it stands for?  Do any other states do this?

What exactly is the pledge of allegiance?

I pledge allegiance to the Flag
    of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
    one Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

I dont know if it is law here in Ohio, but we always started the school day with it.  

For some reason, I always thought this was similar to what the Third Reich did, but not on as large of a scale.

Yeah, it's pretty damn pathetic to be forced to say that.

I like the Third Reich comnparision Hydro.
There was also a huge thing over in Cali about getting under God removed from the pledge because of some Atheist. Which is equally pathetic.

And in Catholic schools, they always told us not to worship false idols, and they would show us videos of the silly heathens (Edited to add: I hope you see my sarcasm here.) chanting to stupid objects....  yet we were forced to put our hands over our hearts and pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth that hung from the wall.  Contradictory?  Yes.  Stupid regardless?  Also yes.

I refuse to say it because I'm being forced to.  because if you think about it if you are forced to say it makes it meaningless.  

I am in a chatholic school now. It all depends on the spin you put on it. According to them you are pledging to uphold freedom and it shows pride in you're counrty and those who sacraficed thier lives in wars for it.
Plus you say God so it can't be bad. :-/

I sometimes say it i sometimes don't same thing as praying at the begining of every class. I don't find myself to be a very religious person and so 9 times out of 10 i don't pray. In fact i didnt know any of the prayers when i started going to school here.
For me this is just 3 minutes that we don't have to have real class.

Kind of ironic, don't you think?  Being forced to say it to show you are vowing to uphold freedom?  How much sense does that make?

OD

None what so ever.  In fact even my principal (who is an ex-marine) is against it.

We are not forced to say it here. It is the states law not the Countries law.

my 4 year old daughter is in kindergarten and already knows the Pledge of Allegience.

I been a LONG time but I don't recall having to say the pledge in junior high or high school. I always thought it was an excersise for the younger kids to teach them about patriotism. I don't have a problem with having the kids say it every day if a school tradition. I don't think it's right for it to be a law, that does ruin the meaning. Playing the National Anthem before sporting events has been a long standing tradition but it's not a law, if it were it wouldn't mean anything.

Didn't you know that last year when they started making us say the Pledge in the morning?

Anyway, that crazy librarian called me a terrorist last year for sitting quietly and respectfully instead of saying the pledge. Why do people keep calling me a terrorist?

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.  Oh well, my point is the same.  

To answer your terrorist questing, if you do anything that might be considered unpatriotic even if you're being respectful you're branded a terrorist. Kind of like in the 1950's but instead of being a communist you're a terrorist.

It seems like you're questioning this train of thought... hmmmm, better inform homeland secturity, the fbi, the cia and the local police.

Don't you have the 10 commendments hanging in public buildings too? I remember seeing this michael moore show a few years back in which they had an item about it. I'm not sure it ever went through though.

There have been instances of that happening, yes.  Just last year there was a courthouse in Alabama (I think) that had them up.  People complained, and it ended up going all the to the Supreme Court, where they ordered the justice who had them put there to remove them.  He kept refusing and refusing and refusing.  (Anybody surprised what state this happened in?)  I think they finally got the commandments removed from the building, but I kind of stopped following the story because I got sick of nobody doing anything about it.  I'm not sure what happened to the justice, but he was refusing to remove them, fully aware of the legal consequences to disobeying the high courts.

I just heard about this on the news today...wierd.
Anyways, the case so far has cost $300,000 and the guy doesnt have enough money to fight it anymore so i guess the commandment are coming down.
This was in Georgia btw.

That's right.  Court battles are won by the people with the most money.  Something else that makes perfect sense.

OD

Well, that's pretty stupid anyway.  $300,000 to try to fight something you know you'll lose in the end anyway?  Why?  If you're that obsessed with the ten commandments, why not build yourself a new house in the shape of two stone tablets and paint the words on the front?  At least then you'd be a little more fun to laugh at.

They just ruled on the 10 commandments displayed at our courthouse:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04281/391760.stm

Saying it can stay because of historical reasons may make some sense, but trying to say that the Ten Commandments don't endorse any particular religion is rather misleading.  Maybe it doesn't point out Christianity specifically since they are part of Jewish scripture as well, but c'mon now.  The Ten Commandments are religious and that's that.

I just wonder.
Do you people care if there's a plauqe with the ten commandments on it that much? It doesn't affect you in any way.

Amen!

I could really care less. BNut it is the government breaking its own laws is the big thing. It is essentially hippocrasy.

No, it doesn't matter to me that much, but it would be better if the judges said something like, "It can stay because nobody fives a guck," rather than this bullshit about it not being religious.  Now, when Politicians start writing things like "In the year of our Lord" into laws, that bugs me just a tad.  If I became a politician and wrote "In the year of our Lord, Satan," I think people would get pretty upset.  G.W., John Kerry, and so many others on Capitol Hill need to recognize the fact that America is NOT a Christian state.

I would care, but they won't allow nonsense like that here. Just like the pathetic swearing you'll tell the truth on a bible. What kind of lunatic nonsense is that?

The government goes against its own laws allot here.

When the country started, it was big buisness to swear on the bible and by now it's a tradition, albeit a stupid one.

http://www.unoriginal.co.uk/gallerymisc40.html

Funnier than that is the screensaver link at the bottom of the page. Swimsuit model or kittens. You decide.

How bout kittens in swimsuits?

Nah

I saw a kitten in a swimsuit one time.
Actually, no I didn't. But that'd be pretty funny.


I wonder if someone made a fake 10 Commandments with made up commandments and put it in front of a court house if they would get in trouble for it.

Yeah, like the 12 (I think) commandments of satanism.

If you look at that famous picture(don't remember the name) with Moses on Mt. Sinai reciveing the 10 commandments on the top of the Mt. he has 2 tablets at the bottom he is holding one and all the people are cowering beneath it.
WHAT HAPPEND TO THE OTHER TABLET?

I think the other tablet is pictured leaning against the rock in the background.

Moses was a sloppy speller and he made his letters to big to fit onto just one tablet.

There was just a huge court case about the forced saying of the pledge of alliegence.

An athiest who had a little girle living with him, he was taking care of her but hadn't legally adopted her, sued to have god removed from the pledge of alliegence because he felt that she shouldn't be forced to say it. I believe the ruling was that since he wasn't her legal gaurdian, he had no right to sue because of something he felt was in her best interest.

That was a case in California. I never heard what ended up happening with that.
It went to the Californian Supreme Court though.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/06/27/pledge.allegiance/

check this out for if your interested in the case.