RF Generation Message Board

I'm not even remotely into the skylanders stuff or Infinity, but it does make sense to me for tracking purposes. From what I can understand, they are basically little controllers, right? They each have UPCs/Part numbers to track, what is the reason why we aren't tracking them as Video Game Hardware? Did I miss a big debate or is it more simple than that?

No one ever said they could not be tracked.

They certainly would be covered under the multiple consoles listing for hardware ;)

No we said somewhere not to add them. We dont track DLC and they are basically DLC. Again just because it has something todo with a video game doesnt mean we need to track it. When that becomes the case I am totally adding my Pac-Man cereal.

I stand corrected.

Make your own excel sheets :P

I can see the debate. Although I disagree with comparing them to DLC. They are more like R.O.B. or other single game specific accessories. I agree about not tracking digital content, but a physical peripheral that is basically a controller specifically for their respective games would logically be different from digital add-ons to physical games. Then again, my argument comes from my personal feelings about digital content and not from experience on the matter; I am sure at least two of you guys have already been back and forth on the subject.



On a note more specific to the topic of the forum, I have hit 2150 total unique software titles and am getting close to being organized enough to where I am looking to start selling/trading off dups.

I completely disagree with you. They add a character to a game after you buy it. Just like downloaded content. ROB is a controller not a character.

So you don't have to physically put the "controller" on the control pad to use the character each time? It is just like a download code, but instead of being on a card you toss after use, it is an action figure too?

Skylanders are more like a memory card than a controller. You have the have them on the portal to use them, but as soon as you take them off they no longer exist in that game (unlike DLC in which you enter the code and it stays on your system). The characters data (level, moveset, equipment) all are saved to the actual figure as well, so that you can take them to your buddies house and still have your character. I think they should be added to the database as an accessory.

i agree with adding them in especially after crabby's description. there are DS carrying cases and game cases in the database, as well as system cables...why not these? just because there's an added digital element doesn't make the physical action figure irrelevant, especially when it can connect and interact with the game.

(btw maybe these posts should all be split into their own topic?)

There are already 1000's pf items in the DB that shouldnt be in there. We dont need to add 100's more. I collect Disney Infinity figures also so I could understand why you want to track them. I am sticking with they are no more then DLC. 

I get why you don't want them in the database, but the DLC comparison is very wrong.

How so? It is a add-on for the game? You just dont download it. Thats the only difference to me.

Because it behaves like an accessory that can store  your game's information. Much like a memory card, which I think definitely has a place in this database.

Well based on the poorly composed title i am guessing Tynstar split this topic?

IMO they have a place in the DB. (OR MAYBE THEIR OWN DATABASE!?!?!? I love more databases :P )

For the mobile games, where you can actually purchase or enter the code for a character to play like DLC, I understand the argument.  For the figures that you physically change-out on the portal to play, they should be added as accessories.  Comparing to R.O.B. is a decent example.  Gyromite is virtually unplayable without him, unless you can find a really bored friend, like Skylanders is absolutely unplayable without a physical figure on the portal.  The game just stares at you, "Anytime, bud.".  Donkey Kong 64 is unplayable without the Expansion Pak, and that is in the database as an accessory.  Wii Sports Resort will not allow you to play without a Wii Motion Plus controller that is in the database.  There are other examples, but I consider the figures more than add-ons.

With the impending addition of Amiibo to the milieu, I believe they do have a place in the DB.

Is it even possible to play Skylandes without any figures?

EDIT: NVM, it looks like Techie just answered my question.

Can't wait for Amiibo!!

I have no doubt the will end up the in db. Why not everything else is. Lets just fuck it up even more.

I love you anyway Tynstar.

I love all you guys. Minus Izret he is a dick.

 :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

THe beer in the mugs is Canadian in honor of Crabby.

Thank you for moving this over to something outside of the Milestones thread. My intention was not to take over that thread with this conversation.

I can see both sides, and I didn't realize it was so polarized. I never thought about it in the ways you guys have mentioned. Tynstar makes some valid points in that the line is blurred. I had been ignorant, but there are many "accessories" that while video game related, may not fit the same mold as other more obvious stuff.

While I am hoping the mention of formally tracking Pac-man cereal was just for dramatic effect, the comparison helped me think deeper on the matter. Was there ever a rulebook or guidelines penned by our founders on what defines soft/hardware? I feel pretty passionately about digital releases not being "real", but we have been allowed to track those here, and I know others who share the same ideals, but does that mean it isn't worth tracking?

After that thought, I was humbled to remember that the tracking system is a tool for us to use, and although I may disagree that digital titles are included in it, that doesn't mean someone wouldn't find it helpful for their tracking. Would this idea not also translate to the Skylanders/infinity figures?

After much thought on the matter on both sides, I cannot see any reason why to disallow it completely. If it will make tracking the suckers easier for those that do play those games, why not? Since I do not play the games, or use those controllers/memory cards/accessories myself; it really wouldn't affect my use of the tool. Allowing others to have a place to track them efficiently wouldn't make it more difficult for me to use.

In the end, the decision falls on you guys in charge of the site, and that is a trouble I am glad to not have to deal with directly. ;) But I hope my input is helpful and hasn't been taken negatively.

Well the good thing (or bad thing) is they would track as Multiple System releases.

Good thing
Very easy for people to find in their collection and won't bog down DB or personal collection searches for any of the systems they work with.

Bad thing
1. Multi Consoles is something there has been talk about fixing/changing the way it works.
2. Variants ;)

@Boshamp - I have no idea why people would track digital titles here. I have never used Steam before but I thought when you logged into it you see a list of all the games you won.

you do get a list on steam, and on some other digital platforms. i think the reason people want it here is to have a place where they can track everything they own without anything missing. that's much nicer than looking at a dozen different lists through different platforms to see how many (or which) digital games you have.

Just you wait until i get Flappy Bird in the database...

I hate you!!!!!!!!!!!

Just to clear this up, I track digital games so I can search to see if I have a title somewhere in my library when I'm out looking at stuff.  Steam has a good list of what is available to you regardless of whether it is installed or not, but the games you download on the XBox 360 does not.  I have games that I downloaded at some point on the 360 but some of them have been deleted and now I have no idea what is available to me.

On the topic of Skylanders, they aren't DLC.  They're not just extensions in the game - the games revolve around the figures.  There is backward compatibility for the figures and each figure stores it's level, items, and skills within itself.  You can level up a figure to level 10 in Spyro's Adventure, and then put the same figure on the portal while playing Giants or Swap Force and you will immediately get a level 10 character.  They are also platform independent.  My Spyro figure that works on the 360 version will also work on the PS3, Wii, and DS version.  They are not DLC.  They are action figures with chips that store data for the individual character.  They belong in the Hardware table in the database.

Would you say Skylanders are analogous to memory cards?

Yeah, pretty much.  It's what crabby said earlier last month.

Make "Data Figure" a Genre of hardware. There are Amiibos coming out in less than a week and I'll be damned if they're not trackable. There are already tons of these figures out to collect and I see no reason why they shouldn't be trackable. If they play such an integral part to the games, they should be in. Not only that but they're accessories plain and simple. They store your progress like a memory card. If they didn't have little figures on the top, they'd be memory cards.

On a side note,when the time comes, remember that Amiibos still need to be under multiple consoles because the 3DS is also going to be compatible with them.

On another side note, I agree carrying cases and shelves shouldn't be in the DB. They're merchandise, not hardware. Seriously, there's a CD rack in the DB. A CD RACK.

i always found that stupid too, imo accessories should only be included if they either connect to the game somehow through the controller or system, or they augment controls (like the circle pad add-on for the 3DS). merchandise shouldn't be in here, that's such a huge can of worms that belongs to a different website than this one. or if it's going to be here, then put it as extra media photos on the relevant hardware if there is any.

like i said earlier in here i count amiibos and skylanders like memory cards, and they most definitely interact with the hardware/software, so i'm all for adding those.

I see your Amibos/Skylanders and raise you Animal Crossing cards.

Many people wanted to track those(myself included) it never happened.

Really, the Hardware DB has been slowly evolving to basically be most non-software things these days...
There really shouldn't be two separate DBs. There should just be separate "Types" of items.

I love the argument of "Yes to Skylanders because Amiibos." FANBOYS.

I AM AGAINST THESE THINGS!

Oh wait it coincides with an interest of mine?

I WANT THESE THINGS!

Hey now, don't twist my words.  :laugh:

I do see how Animal Crossing cards don't belong. There's nothing digital about them. Might as well add DLC cards or controller overlays.

...
(wanders off)

Amiibos!!!

ya i wouldn't count animal crossing cards for the same reasons Flee mentioned, but Amiibos/skylanders/disney infinity are all digital devices that interact with the system remotely.

edit: i should note i don't play any of those 3 things nor do i plan on it, i just feel like they should count as hardware.

Animal Crossing cards interact with the system in just as much of a way as the Amiibos/Skylanders/Infinity. We already have the e-Reader games in there...
/me waits for Tynstar.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate a bit here, but these figures are not, at least in the way of Skylanders, just figures. If someone wanted action figures and K'Nex sets in the DB, that's a definite no. But the figures do interact with the game. You do have to have at least 8 Skylanders to 100% the game, one of each element.

I can see both ways though for having them or not having them and honestly, I'm fine with either way that it may go.

I'd like to see them. (All of them AND the Animal Crossing Cards)
But i'd like to see them in their own separate place.

For best results they would need a completely different page layout.

...in all seriousness, why hasn't anyone just TRIED submitting one to the DB? I used to do that as a member before I was on staff, and if it got rejected, I went to a sympathetic staff member to get it overturned (izret).

Don't submit them.
I want them in the DB but they need to be represented in a way that i feel the site is not currently equipped to handle.

How's that? Hardware seems to underrepresent everything.

at first I was about to question what I said about the animal crossing memory cards because that contradicts my point about "skylanders/amiibos are memory cards so yes to adding them!". I think I meant to say that I wouldn't count animal crossing cards for their own entries because they were never released stand-alone to my knowledge, they only came packaged with the Animal Crossing game itself, so they should be extra media for that. I'm all for any stand-alone memory cards getting their own hardware entry though.

so what I mean to say is:

1: yes to all accessories in the hardware DB that connect to or augment the game/system in a meaningful way. that can be either digitally (Skylanders/Disney Infinity/Amiibo/all memory cards, etc.) or physically (3DS 2nd joystick add-on, PS3 trigger extensions, or anything else along those lines).

2: if the hardware was never released standalone and came bundled with a game or system only, then it should be extra media for that existing entry. this includes animal crossing memory cards.

3: no merchandise. no magazines, no strategy guides, nothing that isn't an interactive accessory (or controller, system, etc.) should be in the hardware database. if anything else is desired it should eventually have it's own place, or sub-place, in the database(s).

+1 to add Amiibos and -1 to Skylanders/Disney Infinity, just sayin ;)

Tech animal crossing cards were actual cards. Not the memory card bundled with the game. There were 3 or 4 series of cards that could be used in conjunction with the game.

oh wait are we talking about the e-reader cards? ignore me then

Hey, look what I found.
http://www.rfgeneration.com/PHP/gethwinfo.php?ID=U-145-H-00060-A
Scanable data cards that add content to a game? The idea rings a bell somehow.

That is just a booster pack though.
Ideally we would be tracking all of the cards :P

I really have nothing to say. I know they will get added. Everything that has any game logo or name on it will be in the DB at some point. I have hardly been on the forums in months. You can tell by how long it has taken me to respond to it.

In my opinion the list of things to remove form the database is very long. I am liking my Excel spreadsheet now a days.

...what if these things were not part of YOUR collection tool, but someone else's? Would that suffice? I know I ask similar questions all the time, but allowing for customization of the collection tools is near the top of the list as you know.

I dont every see it changing.

So the current line up of Amiibos are queue'd up and ready to be approved... are we opening those floodgates?

I am for their entrance into the DB.
But they need to be in their own place.
In fact the whole lineup is submit incorrectly as WiiU when they are supposed to be be multiplatform

Oh damn, I forgot about that. I even brought it up before.

You can change the console in the review queue, you know...

True. Was there a yes or no to adding "Data Figure" as a hardware Genre? I think that would group them all up in a nice, searchable way.

I still think they are going to filthy up wherever they are unless it is their own home.

I'd be most in favor of seeing a "Data Figure database". (Multiple databases is a dream i will never see realized.)
Select
Skylanders
Skylanders Giants
Skylanders Trap Team
Skylanders Whatever-Other-Line-They-Have
Amiibo
Amiibo Series 2
Disney Infinity
Disney Infinity 2.0

Obviouisly i don't know enough about any of them to give proper breakdowns. But it would make them optimally searchable for those who do want them in the collection tool and wouldn't fill up the Multiple Systems category.

Also since they have variants/reprints/etc and are bound to do so with future Series/Editions of each figure it would make it easier to identify.



BUT
Since i know it will never happen i guess...
UNLEASH THE FLOOD GATES!
Put them all in under Multiple Consoles.

The "Search Option" you're referring to is something I'd like to add globally, in an easy yet data intensive update of the database. Essentially, I'd like to have an "attribute" system that maps to information like "Game Series: Tomb Raider", "Environment: Post-Apocalyptic", "Data Figure: Amiibo", "N64: RumblePak Supported", or even the Genres, Subgenres, Ratings and other existing information so that we can index it and have it be properly searchable.

There's a ton of data we don't track that would be useful in the database, like finding out which games support the PlayStation Mouse as a controller, or which games support the PocketStation. Most of it is information we throw by the wayside since we don't track it, but it would be simple to add that information to a submission if we did.

Since the Amiibos are in the database, we are free to start adding Skylanders?  Multi Consoles category.  So, now that a Nintendo version of Interactive Figures is released, the action begins?

We may want to coordinate this so that the approval team isn't barraged with submissions.  If travel cases and memory cards are in, "Interactive Figures" should definitely be.  If some prefer an off-to-the-side list, that should be something to add by the database team.  There are collectors that would enjoy official soundtracks and promotional items be allowed as well.  Why should we limit the database when it only betters our exposure and collection tracking?

Yeah, go ahead, Data Figures are a go.

As long as people aren't submitting duplicates, we should be fine.

Let's not jump the gun here.

We'd need ISBNs for soundtracks and strategy guides, and the current pages aren't properly setup to even display these types of things. Baby steps, guys.

Should have mentioned: please list compatible systems when submitting figures. Makes it easier for us to approve.

I started adding some Skylanders into the db, but I'm considering changing the naming format to show the series that the figure is a part of e.g. Skylanders Giants: Shroomboom instead of just the name of the figure.  We want this to be organized.  After the first run that I have entered are approved, I'll go back and make the changes and add the systems as Flee mentioned.

Ok great. You can utilize variation title for organizational purposes if you need to.

Skylanders are compatible for all systems, but the compatibility lies in the titles themselves. They have colored bases to show which games they are compatible with.

I wanted to ask, before approving them - does it make sense to tie them in with all versions of the character? For example:
Chill
Chill [Blizzard Chill]
Chill [Legendary]
Chill [Lightcore]

The different series of characters have different names, so it should be redundant to have the series in the titles (e.g. Blizzard Chill is Series 2). However, Blizzard Chill only works for Skylanders Swap Force - so, should be it a Variation, or a separate release that is tied by Related?

I'd say just tie them in by related. I say this because if there's a change in the way the site handles variations in the future, it won't cause problems.

Different figures work with different games, so I would think that only the specials within the same series would be a variation e.g. Legendary Trigger Happy is a variation of the original Spyro's Adventure Trigger Happy.  But, if it is preferred they can be entered in chronological order to tie in the variations.  I just may not have all the information such as part # and UPC for some characters.

We should consult Zag for this, I think.

There's not much to consult here - it's just a question of wanting to find all of the figures tied together (e.g. looking for all versions of a figure, regardless of which game they work with), or to treat them like "normal" games and hardware and only tie the direct variations in, which would mean that a Series 2 figure would not be tied to a Series 1 figure.

Chronological order doesn't really matter, as they all have unique names (except for some of the skin or chase variants).
FWIW, I own most of the figures up until Swap Force, and only stopped collecting because i lost my job at the time. Zag and I talk about Skylanders over PMs fairly often.  ;D

Yes, the series specific figures could be tied together, but there should not be any cross-pollination between series'.  Zag isn't the only one that plays the games.  :D

To give an example about how Chill would look:

a variation of
Skylanders Giants: Chill
would be
Skylanders Giants: Chill [LightCore]

but

Skylanders Giants: Chill
and
Skylanders Swap Force: Blizzard Chill

would be separate.

So, you propose having the title release as part of the Title?

That would be a good way to separate by series, thus making the variations much easier to track.  It would also help from a checklist perspective.  Of the ones that I had submitted without it, I can go back and edit after approval or start over.

Well, it'd make separating the original Sidekicks from the new releases easier...

If I can get some into the database, we can see what everyone thinks about the format.  It is about the community and not individuals.

Sidekicks (Minis), as packaged, would realistically look like:

Skylanders Spyro's Adventure: Trigger Snappy

and

Skylanders Trap Team: Drobit & Trigger Snappy Mini Set

Yes, but there were Sidekcks that had the same name but different bases for Spyro's Adventure and Giants. :'(
How do you propose doing Variation Tie-Ins for something like Fizzy Frenzy Pop Fizz and Love Potion Pop Fizz?

There were only 4 sidekicks released per series, prior to Trap Team. No bleed over.

Spyro's Adventure:  Trigger Snappy, Gill Runt, Terrabite, Whisper Elf
Giants:  Mini Jini, Eye Small, Barkley, Thumpling

I would say that Fizzy Frenzy Pop Fizz is the original release, and Love Potion is the holiday variation.

I just realized another problem with variation tracking.  Jolly Bumble Blast and Lightcore Bumble Blast can be considered variations, but the original Bumble Blast only came as part of the Fiery Forge Battle Pack, and should not be it's own entry.  Maybe toss the variation idea altogether and just give separate entries?

Yes, but how do you title it? The Variation Title should be the variant, so should it be Skylanders Trap Team: Pop Fizz [Fizzy Frenzy Pop Fizz] and [Love Potion Pop Fizz] ?

That gets into the whole deal of "components" with NFR titles in the database. We've been handling those by giving them their own page, with a Trivia entry along the lines of "Only released as part of the Fiery Forge Battle Pack" and a UPC of N/A, and adding a Related link to the bundle.

I agree.
The same should likely be done with the other figures to avoid confusion of what works where or why there are multiple figures with the same name.
Don't the amiibos already have 3 marios in the US alone now? Fireball, different one bundled with a game, Walmart gold exclusive.

I know Skylanders has done the same thing but i don't know to what extent since i never got into them.

I wouldn't be in the least surprised if Disney ended up releasing the same figures with new stances or outfits or whatever down the line too. Unless they already have.

After looking at this: Skylanders Trap Team: Pop Fizz [Fizzy Frenzy Pop Fizz] and [Love Potion Pop Fizz], maybe they should be their own separate entries and not listed as variations.  From the playability perspective, the figures don't just look different.  The special editions are pre-loaded with certain upgrades or experience.

So they would need to look like this, if linked within series:

Skylanders Trap Team: Fizzy Frenzy Pop Fizz
Skylanders Trap Team: Fizzy Frenzy Pop Fizz [Love Potion Pop Fizz]

For the battle pack/adventure pack included figures, your idea makes sense.