RF Generation Message Board

Is there a reason that the Onlive system isn't in the database?

Isn't it dead?

Still going strong.

There doesn't seem to be much support for the digital marketplace on here.

I added Steam on impulse, since we've been having a lot of Steam submissions and the information is readily available. However, if you feel that Onlive should be on here, let us know. Give us more information than "why don't we have this?" What makes the system any different than obtaining a digital download from elsewhere? If there's no enthusiasm behind adding it, then why should we support it? The same goes for any console/system that we don't currently have listed here.

As staff, we have to have knowledge on every system, and adding a new system isn't just adding a few new columns to the database. We have to become familiar with how to retrieve information on the system, how its releases are done, etc. Steam, as is, has a very complicated verification process for us.

I'd love to support as many systems as possible, so please give me a good reason.   :D

Not having the games in the database doesn't really bother me since they aren't physical. The system and controller on the other hand are that's why I was wondering why they can't be added and steam can.

Well then, that's a compelling argument, is it not? Why don't we have the system and controller in the database?  :ninja:
Did anyone here say they COULDN'T be added?

(You do realize that we add systems ON REQUEST unless a staff member pre-emptively adds them, right?  :P)

Very true. If they were to be added I would more than happily submit information and pictures.

That's good to hear. The only information I'll really need then is the Manufacturer name and if it's available in regions outside North America. Besides that, if there is information to fill in for the fields (like, Part #?), then we'll need a policy for verifying that information. For instance, we use AppId for Steam for the Part #.

I know OnLive is available in at least Europe, I think the real question is if the system is Region Free.

Manufacturer: Onlive
Regions: North America, United Kingdom, Belgium

Console added/enabled for North America/Europe.


OnLive has restrictions for North America, United Kingdom and Belgium, so like Steam is could be "Region Free" with variation additions for North America/Europe/specific country. However, the consoles certainly aren't due to power restrictions in overseas markets, so I added North America/Europe.

If you feel that we should submit the games as "Region Free", however, I would need to look into if that's correct or not.

We have Steam, XBLA, XBLI, PSN and WiiWare. What else do you want?

I would love for some Tablet/Mobile support

those aren't gaming exclusive marketplaces though, like the ones tynstar listed are. i'm just counting the software offered of course...there are obviously other things like themes and videos for your system etc, but in terms of downloadable software as far as i know it's just games. most tablet/mobile marketplaces have games in a subsection but they aren't only about the games, it might start to lead into even more vague definitions of what counts as a gaming platform.

i have to point out though that i don't own a smartphone or tablet of my own and am only basing my knowledge off a friend's phone and vague knowledge from the internet. so more opinions than mine would be good in case i'm just plain wrong Lol.

Those are not dedicated game systems so no IMO.

To be honest, allowing tablet/mobile games opens the game for a million different platforms. I can see why people want the digital games from the console manufacturers in the DB (I wouldn't) because atleast those are well-defined.

There are a million different phones, adding them all would clog up the DB. Having Snake on my Nokia 3410 doesn't really need to be in the DB, imo. You'll say "oh, I only want the iPod added" but before you know it, people will be asking for every phone imaginable. DB accuracy/correctness also comes into question when you start adding platforms that are hard/impossible to verify.


Seconded.

Yes, let us add millions of shovelware apps to the database!

In all seriousness though, tablet/mobile games don't belong on the site.  PSN/Steam/XBLA/WiiWare are all a stretch as it is.

I agree

I'm glad to see its still pretty universal that we don't want cell phone games in the DB. I personally don't want them in there, but that's ultimately a decision of the users of the site and we will add them if it ever becomes a large majority of the users that want them added.

Is that really true? You can always draw a line and say this is as far as it goes.

Some members might perceive a need to catalogue a lot of things they own. That doesn't mean RFG has to cater to every one of those needs.

Doesn't the same reasoning apply to strategy guides and board games? It's nice to consider suggestions for DB scope expansion, but in the interest of the site, it would be wise not to alienate the core users. It wouldn't be a pretty site to see RFG devolve into a jack of all trades, master of none type of DB.

Ultimately, the users drive the needs of the site. We just facilitate what we can. Most of the staff are of the opinion that we should improve what we have before moving forward, which I'm definitely on board with. However, at the same time, we can't neglect what is coming along in the future. If we were to have a lot more active community like NintendoAge, we could bring more staff on board, which would allow us to do more "interesting" things like Strategy Guide integration, arcade PCBs and possibly even proper PC and non-traditional marketplace systems like iTunes/Google Play (strictly limited to the "Gaming" apps).

We just don't have enough staff members to spread around all of that knowledge to, which would result in Sirgin's concern of declining quality for the site. For now, we'll certainly support what we can, but mobile/tablet is FAR beyond the scope of what we can support, even if we SHOULD be supporting it.

P.S. If someone wants to go about fixing our PC database, feel free - but it's indicative of what would occur with mobile/tablet support.

I agree with this 100%

Although I do have my XBLA and Virtual console games logged into the database I wouldn't shed a tear if they were to be removed.

This website, at least to me is more about collecting. How can you collect digital games? Can you post them on the small scores thread?

If anything I feel like a separate website should be set up just for digital stuff to keep it clean.

We minus well have a database for emulators and ROM's we downloaded at this point if were going down this path.

We just got our first submission for a game for OnLive, did you ever find out if the games are Region Free? I tried researching it, but google wants to keep replacing "onlive" with "online" and by the time I took the other consoles out of the search results, I ended up with this thread as a top result.

LOL

Onlive has around 300 games released for it.
Ouya when it launches is supposed to be compatible with the service also. So if people take interest in Ouya there might be confusion as to what games go where when the time comes.

I can't find anything online that says the games would not be region free.
Since you are basically doing a remote access of a game running on someone elses PC i highly doubt they are running multiple versions of games on various servers.
Region free is the way to go IMO

If the Ouya is using OnLive, the games would still be OnLive games. Just like playing Steam games on your PC, doesn't make them PC games in our DB.
I'm assuming they're all region free as well. But I'm thinking some titles may not be available in certain regions, but it'd be the exception rather than the rule, much like Steam.
So unless someone objects, I'll add the one in queue as Region Free and we'll do that for any others that come in.

Did a bit of reading and it looks like there are some differences between countries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OnLive_video_games

US/Canada has the most stuff available but parts of Europe are not allowed access to certain things. No reasoning given but it still looks like everything is the same.
Since it is all digital i would assume it is just blocked based on IP or whatever else they can use to determine your location

Same deal applies with Steam - it's Regionwide unless there's a specific release for it. Steam has a nice appID/GUID system that they use that can identify these, but I'm not sure what OnLive uses for its applications.

HEY WAIT A MINUTE!
"PlayPack is a monthly subscription service whereby customers have full access to video games for as long as they are offered in the PlayPack. PlayPass is a service whereby customers purchase a pass to play a video game. The pass can be for as long as it is offered on OnLive or, for some video games, three or five days."

It is a goddam rental service. At least with Steam, XBLA, WW, PSN you buy a game and "own it".
No OnLive "software" in the DB.

^You can buy games separately as well.  That being said, I don't think it belongs in the database.

Oh well if you can buy the games and play them whenever you want for the life of the service i guess they can go in.

Also there have been murmured rumors of digital only being split into its own section...

Fingers crossed.

Sandbox fix required first. After that, it's not TOO much work to split...

There are 2 Onlive games in the submission queue right now.

Why are we adding these?  Onlive games are not download to your computer, only streamed.  You simply purchase a license to use the software from Onlive's servers.  As much as I don't consider Steam games part of a collection, they are at least downloaded to your computer.  I think they should be added as software.

Unfortunately if we don't get a little more flexible with digital games, we will fall behind other sites collection tools. Regardless of alienating the older members here, this change is going to have to happen down the road for rfgen to stay relevent in the DB market.

Ugh and we have. We have said before how many download only things we have in the Db. But the key is they are DOWNLOADED games not STREAMED games.

i agree streaming is a lot different. it would be like counting youtube videos as part of your movie collection.

Well aware. We also need new members to stay relevant in the DB market.

I don't care for OnLive, but I think it does have its place in the DB. Sure, you're not buying an actual game, just a license. But every game you buy, that's what you're really paying for, is the license. The cartridge/disc is just how its accessible to the consumer.
You're paying for the ability to play a game, its really no different than downloading one off Steam, except its just loaded on some other computer in another part of the world.

I think the real question is, what happens when the OnLive service gets shut off? Inevitably it will cease to exist, whether its a year from now or 30 years from now. When that happens, do we remove it from the DB? Since no one will be able to "own" the games anymore, there's no point in having them in collections. But it would be a part of our duty to retain the information that these games did once exist for future generations.

Steam...the gateway console. :P

Exactly.  You can't own the game.  I see no reason to add them to the database.

As soon as any digital service goes down the games are essentially unpurchaseable and will also be unredownlodable in a matter of time if not immediately(neither of those words are real. Shame...). XBLA and PSN already have delisted games but since the service i still up AFAIK in all instances you can redownload the game even if no one else can still buy it. I HIGHLY doubt that will be the case for these games in coming years.

BUT:
If they go into a separate collection folder people who own the digital games can still track them to their hearts content:

-We can still have a record of their existence. Since they are still games and we are THE classic and MODERN video games database. If all digital items break off into their own trackable DB i see no reason why we could not include iOS and WP and whatever other goofy download only gaming mediums we have been passing on for the last few years. That being said no one has ever complained about the iQue being in the DB :P

-And the people who want to completely ignore anything that is a non physical medium can do so.

i still agree with this and don't support the idea of adding streaming games, but we have to remember that every digital distribution system will be gone someday. it's not a release type that's a credible thing to collect. but i do like the idea of recording it in a separate database while they're still around. i think a really good suggestion (imo) would be to have a way to make a digital system as "retired" or something like that. so, like NES_Rules said, we could still be a service that retains information about these systems/games, but at the same time have a way to show people that they're not available anymore. maybe make it so games in those retired systems are unable to be added to people's collection lists.

I made up a game in my head. What section of the Db should I add it to? It was an idea for a video game so it should be added.

We're sorry - this country is not enabled for your console.

DAMN!

Right, a big part of this whole site is just documenting gaming history.  And I'm never going to buy an OnLive game myself, but it will be certainly be cool to browse through that section of the DB in the future.

:D !!! Separating them in some way sounds pretty cool, especially if iOS can get added.  In the last few years I have played some good games on my iPod, and some of these iOS exclusives would seriously be in my personal top 10 list if I ever get around to compiling it.  Of course there is a ridiculous amount of iOS games out there, and lots of crappy ones, but if its inclusion in the DB would be similar to Xbox Indie Games where just the cream of the crop gets added (or whatever people want), then that sounds good to me.

We've gotta document history, but when it comes to such a vast and not-100%-quality catalog, I think it's perfectly alright if we, well, only document the history people want, right?  ;)  Much better than nothing.

Yep, it's the Classic and Modern Video Games Database, so these titles have got to have some sort of presence.  And separating downloadable from physical sounds like an excellent way to do so.