RF Generation.  The Classic and Modern Gaming Databases.RF Generation.  The Classic and Modern Gaming Databases.

Posted on Feb 7th 2008 at 04:57:13 AM by (Tondog)
Posted under Modern Gaming, Opinion, Microsoft, Xbox 360, EA, Burnout Paradise, Xbox Live, Nickel and Dimes, Should have bought a PS3

Do you have an Xbox 360 Core or Arcade model? Did you expect it to be able to do what the higher end Xbox 360s can? You did? Well, guess what? You're wrong. Dead wrong.

If you buy Burnout Paradise, the latest installment in Criterion's critically acclaimed series, you'll be forced to play it offline, unless you pay $100 to Microsoft to buy a hard drive.

"Wait a minute? Are you saying what I think you're saying?! Burnout Paradise on the Xbox 360 REQUIRES a hard drive in order to play online?!" Yes. That is exactly what I said. No typos. You MUST have a hard drive in order to play this game online. "But I thought Microsoft said 'every game will work with every Xbox 360 system'?" Yeah they did, but did you see the part that said, "But just like some games will require you to have a Memory Unit to save games, some games will require you to have a Hard Drive to experience them." OH MY GOD! NO WAY!

What does this mean? It means that if you bought a 360 Core or Arcade, you just got ripped-off big time, but not by Criterion/EA, but by Microsoft.

I know, I'm a Sony fan and tend to gravitate to them, but hear me out. Games these days need a lot of space to run, especially big open-world games like Burnout Paradise. Microsoft should have had the foresight to see that this would become a problem and launched the Core model with a 20GB hard drive and the Premium one with a 40GB or so. By not doing that, they basically limited what the developers can do with the system and make them figure out other ways of caching and quick access.

This isn't the first time that the hard drive has been required on the 360 (think of all the DLC for various games, video downloads, Final Fantasy XI, and Oblivion GOTY), but it is perhaps the most notable since Burnout has huge mainstream and casual gamer popularity, and the people who buy this game might not be the ones that have the Elite Super Deluxe model with all the bells and whistles.

The 360's lack of a standard hard drive is also holding back the game industry because now it's getting to the point where the PS3 versions of games are being effected by Microsoft's boneheaded decision. Rockstar and Capcom have already expressed problems with the lack of a hard drive, and I'm sure more are to follow.

But remember, this is one (admittedly biased) guy's viewpoint. So, readers, I ask you this: what's the solution to this problem? Should devs just leave behind Core and Arcade owners? Or what should happen here?


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I do see what you are saying, but I believe who the blame should be on if really there needs to be blame for anything is the consumers that complained about the console makers always shipping their consoles out as a bundle type deal with all the extras and they just wanted a game system and that is all. Though most people would find the hard drive as a necessity it is still an add-on.

So they might have gotten the initial system for cheaper but in the end they are paying out more. Kind of off topic but kind of not I believe it proves a point on this matter a couple of years a go my friend and I had to go and get our brakes down as my Uncle does them we just had to buy the parts I bought mine he bought his, my pads was $18 with a lifetime guarantee, his was $14 with a one year guarantee, a little after a year he needs new brakes and he again buys the cheapest he can find the $14 with a year guarantee and I'm like OK to myself I paid $18 that I will never have to pay again as long as the company is in business and now you just made an $28 investment total to save $4 on the initial investment? I gave him the V-8 slap (If you seen the V-8 commercials you know what I am talking about) and started laughing after a while I told him what that was about and he chuckled himself though I think he was embarrassed and rightly so.

To recap they thought it was a good thing just to get the bare system as they are saving money initially but as more things came out expecting more functionality that their initial investment didn't contain they are realizing they screwed themselves and like to put that blame on someone besides themselves, of course Microsoft could of included a hard drive like you said but I fault them none for not doing so as people like said wanted it for the cheapest they could get.

So to answer your question I think the devs should keep doing what they are doing and don't worry about the core system users and let the core system owners update their system with a now higher investment ($100 for the 20GB hard).

But that is just my opinion.
This is especially cruel on parents who have no idea of video game systems, and now their kids want a new game + hard drive upgrade. Hell, I didn't even know the cheaper systems were without a hard drive. I just assumed they had one since their predecessor did. I wouldn't expect any changes to be made on Microsoft's side of things as I'm sure they love people falling into this trap and having to pay them the extra later down the track.
As an admited 360 hater, no one got ripped by this.  All the HD's required for is to play online right?  Well, MS word for word lived up to their promise.  The game is playable without a HD.  You simply cant play any of the online aspects.  Point is though, you put the game in the system and you can play it.  Hard Drive or not.  Now, if it didnt work on certain systems due to the difference in the system specs, that'd be an issue anyone could have a problem with.  The online stuff though is only an adition players may or may not choose to use and the requirments are up to the consumer to handle.
I don't see this as news.  On the back of every Xbox LIVE subscription card I've purchased they say "Broadband Internet service, ..., and hard drive (sold separately) or memory unit (sold separately required."  The hard drive is used to save the profile information for a LIVE account.  Of course, a LIVE Gold subscription is required to play online.  Even the minimum of a Silver account is required for some of the free downloads available on the marketplace.

BTW, where is the source material for this article.  All I could find on the subject is this sketchy thread in another forum.

As someone who never plays online, but owns a 360 with many games, I don't see this as a big problem. If you want the perks like online play, you have to pay for them.
This doesn't really seem like an issue to me :/
But it's really a bitch move against those arcade owners who have live to deny them the right to use the service that they paid for.

Hard drive OR memory card! At least they have the choice there as every 360 owner has a memory card (at least I hope so). Oh and http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/01/burnout-paradise-360-requires-hdd-for-online-play/
Wow.  I really used to like this site.  It had (has) a great collection tracker utility.  The community seemed great.  However, between this article and the "completely unbiased" biased article: http://www.rfgeneration.com/news/feature/PS3-or-360-Why-not-Make-an-Informed-Decision-456.php , It's hard to even come here to keep track of my collection.  It seems that you should rename the site "SONY Generation."  Seriously, the same argument could be made with the ps3.  Where is the article "40 GIG PS3 BUYERS, You Guys Got Gypped...Big Time."? 

I would also like to point out that Microsoft, and I never thought I would be defending the big M, had a valid reason for the introduction of the core and arcade models: to sell more units to more people.  They have the option to update their system if they want.  You said it yourself, this is not the first time a game has required a hard drive. 

My response to your question, "what should happen here?"  is that instead of knocking every little flaw that you can find with the 360, focus on the positives of your ps3.  You could have had a nice informative article about flow going to the psp, or the PS3 getting a buget game line, or hell, you could have even compared Burnout on the PS3 against the 360 (with most places saying the ps3 version is slightly better), but to focus an entire news entry on bashing the other side is pathetic. 
Although this article does have a lot of fanboyish commentary in it, it's still pretty clean. Everyone has an opinion and we respect that. There's plenty of Microsoft and Nintendo fanboy activity on RFGen to balance things out.

In regards to the article, I completely disagree that the core/arcades are holding back the industry, that comment makes no sense at all. The X360 was a year ahead of the other systems, and the Wii doesn't even have a HDD to speak of, so it's a non-issue. If the PS3 didn't need ridiculously large installs to offset the crappy speed of the Blu-Ray drive, they may have offered a lower model as well. You buy a core because you want a basic system or a replacement, nothing more. You want the bells and whistles, you go out and buy them as needed and only those you want.

Consumer choice is everything. Remember that when you don't get the component cables with your PS3, or have to pay for Wi-Fi you won't use.
I'm no Sony fan boy, that's for sure.
I think all the different models from both Sony and Microsoft are stupid.
It may be all well and good for the dedicated gamer, but these are video game systems, not mobile phones. When a kid asks for a system, what they ask for it'll be like "I want a 360" or "I want a PS3", not "I want the premium system with fries and an up-sized shake because the core system won't cut it for future releases". Any PS3 should be able to play any PS3 game without disadvantage, and any 360 should be able to play any 360 game without any disadvantage.

But then again that's just me, and I'm pretty old skool about gaming and feel today's gen of systems are the bastard creation of a computer and a system having sex, with their whole harddrive and installing of games. Tongue

RF Generation is a community of gamers, regular Joes, and also.... collectors. Certainly, we respect that a lot of our traffic is a result of our database and collection tools. But, these are only aspects of our site. Our site is based much around the sense of community that we try to convey.

We do not wish to offend anyone. Just as some people, like yourself, look for the site for the collection tools, there are, believe it or not, a group of people who visit the site for this actual blog we put on. In the future, there will be even more things added to the site that will question the thought complex that RF Generation is an exclusive collectors website, because, that has never been the case.

I'm sorry that you find yourself put off by this production. I hope that rather than skipping out on the site as a whole do what 99% of everyone else does, which is enter via the forum, or directly access the collection script. If you wish to see only site news, we tag every site news post with Site News. This is done for people who wish to not see the rest of the blog.

It is doubtful that we'll halt production of the blog. As with any publication, there may be things that tick you off. Certainly there are things that tick me, the Site Director, off. But, it's all entertainment, and it may actually make people think.

Remember that this is a blog, and these posts are just people's opinions.  The front page is in fact just a blog with editorials from the blog writers.  I think if you search back over all the previous blog posts, there's posts bashing about every current system out today. 

If you read the end of the article, he even admits "But remember, this is one (admittedly biased) guy's viewpoint." 
I understand it is a blog and is opinionated content.  I'm fine with that, I guess I just didn't see the point of it making front page.  Unless I misunderstand your process, some blog entries make front page while others do not.  Is that correct?  I guess that the outrageous part to me is that it seems like a non-issue and I don't understand why a non-issue would make front page.  I think that Oatbob's article,  http://www.rfgeneration.com/blogs/oatbob/PS3-gets-The-Best-treatment-in-Japan-484.php , is more informative and "front-page" worthy than the burnout issue. 

Maybe what I am calling into question is the criteria a blog post must meet to make front page.  Now, before any readers dismiss this as a person wanting more "air time" for his own blog posts, I have not created a blog on this site and probably won't.  Hopefully this comes across as constructive criticism.

The majority of your posts on the front page seem like news items with the writer's opinion mixed in, concluding with the author's desire to here from their community.  That's good.  That's what your readers want to read, it seems.  However, articles like this about burnout, or if there were a front-page post about Devil May Cry 4 required download on a PS3, screams of fanboyism and is a turn-off. 

I know I'm not an active community member, but it seems like every time I log onto your site, there is a headline or a reminder to not just use the site for its collection tools, but to take part in your community.  I'm not an idiot, I know people have negative opinions on the different consoles and handheld systems, hell, I'd still argue 'till the death that the snes is better than the genny (Ahhh, don't kill me!).  However, to make the site more inviting, you might not want "admittedly biased" blog entries littering you front page. 

I feel that my first post was written while I was angry and that I didn't communicate my thoughts as effectively as I could have.  I hope that this post seems more reasonable.
Front page articles can happen one of two ways.  The main way is through the postings of the current blog writers on the site staff.  These people were brought onto the team to write blog posts for the front page several times a week.  The second way is by promoting a member's personal blog entry that the admins think is particularly well-written or discusses an interesting topic.  Right now, most of the front page blog entries happen from the assigned staff blog writers.

It's these people's jobs to keep the front page updated by posting new entries.  We actually encourage the writers to add a little spice into their posts and make the entries their own.  Not everyday there's going to be something newsworthy to post about, so sometimes they have to make their own stories Smiley  If some current articles seemed biased, they probably are.  And that's just a result of the writing style of the current blog writers that we have at the time.

I think the fact that people are actually arguing in the responses means the blog is taking off.  Having a little bias in the posts makes them interesting and gets more people talking about it.  If all the articles start becoming blatant fanboy posts, then we'll have to moderate them a little more closely,  but I think right now we've got a nice mix of news posts and opinion posts.


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