Submitting variations with very little data

[nupoile]

Occasionally I run into a problem were I want to add a game to my collection and the only entries in the DB are variations of the one I have. This isn't an issue if I have the game complete, can find pictures online or just have enough information with what I do have to make what I think of as a good submission. If I have all the right data I am happy to submit it to the DB.

The problem is if I don't have good data. Usually this happens with games that are loose and old. In my case mostly PC games     But sometimes console based games.

The latest example is 4 Intellivision games I got loose. All four games have variants, 3 have multiple variations, in the DB but not the one I have.

[img width=700 height=525]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8124/8653595320_38dfd16920_o.jpg[/img]


Since there is so little information on the cart, just what you see on the label in the picture and 'Mattel inc. 1979 USA' molded into the plastic, what do I do? Normally the internets can fill me in what other info I need, RFG, MG, Ebay etc. In the case of these four games there is so little to go on I can't be sure if the other info out there is accurate.

One trick would be to find a picture with say, an Astrosmash cart, that looks like mine and also shows the box it came in. You could get info you see on the box and make a good submission. I'm all fine with that if you can justify a high probability the cart and box go together. When a game is as old as these, has several known variants, very little info on the cart (no part number or art) and I know people buy games and boxes loose and match them up later, how do you know the picture you are looking at is giving you the right information?

I know it's likely the Astrosmash in the picture has all the same part numbers and info as the "main" varient in RFG's DB      http://www.rfgeneration.c...nfo.pl?ID=U-013-S-00060-A      but I don't know that.

So what is a person to do? Start a new thread on every game you have a problem on? Bug Shadow in chat?    I see some people just submit a picture for the 'Extra media' section of the variant.

If someone can give me the info to fill in for these games, great! I am mostly using this as an example so we all know what the general stance is on such things.

I just want to get some conversation and comments on this, it doesn't have to be on these four games specifically.





And here are the links to the other variants if you are really into looking:

Astrosmash - mine has a painted on label, not a sticker:

http://www.rfgeneration.c...nfo.pl?ID=U-013-S-00060-A
http://www.rfgeneration.c...nfo.pl?ID=U-013-S-00070-A
http://www.rfgeneration.c...nfo.pl?ID=U-013-S-00061-A
http://www.rfgeneration.c...nfo.pl?ID=U-013-S-00060-B


Auto Racing - mine says 'Hong Kong'

http://www.rfgeneration.c...nfo.pl?ID=U-013-S-00090-A
http://www.rfgeneration.c...nfo.pl?ID=U-013-S-00100-A
http://www.rfgeneration.c...nfo.pl?ID=U-013-S-00092-A


Sea Battle - mine only says 'sea battle' on label

http://www.rfgeneration.c...nfo.pl?ID=U-013-S-00980-A
http://www.rfgeneration.c...nfo.pl?ID=U-013-S-00990-A
http://www.rfgeneration.c...nfo.pl?ID=U-013-S-00982-A



Tron maze a tron - mine says USA on label

http://www.rfgeneration.c...nfo.pl?ID=U-013-S-01330-A

[Shadow Kisuragi]

IntelliVision variants? Child's play. I can't recommend INTV Funhouse enough for IntelliVision documentation.

http://www.intvfunhouse.com/


Astrosmash:
http://www.intvfunhouse.com/games/mash.php

...go figure, they don't have an image for your end label.

EDIT: The missing image on their site is the one we have pictured here for our base version. Your version looks like a later printing that included the copyright information for "Mattel, Inc." (M.I.) on it. No clue on what box/manual would go with it without further information, but don't forget that they mixed boxes and manuals a lot back then.

Auto Racing:
http://www.intvfunhouse.com/games/auto.php

Your version's documented in there.

Sea Battle:
http://www.intvfunhouse.com/games/sea.php

Your version's documented in there.

Tron Maze-a-Tron:
http://www.intvfunhouse.com/games/maze.php

Your version's documented in there.


Generally, if there's a question about what's in the database, just bring up a topic like this. The database staff aren't experts in every single variation and console, although some tend to think I am! ...I just do a lot of research. 

Lack of documentation on a variation is something that's starting to become a major concern for the site, especially if we're going to track minor variations for the older systems like these. There's a big push from some of the staff to go back to the older ways, where we track major variations and relegate the minor variations to Extra Media, while there are others that want every single variation to be documented and tracked no matter how minor. I tend to fall between the two, and have my own thoughts on how to address it, but for now we'll be more than happy to track any variation as long as it has proper documentation.

[Izret101]

I am thrilled that you expressed concern with pulling info from any other sources. The problem with older games is that you have no way of knowing did this box/manual/cart combo go together originally. Or how many different cart/manual/box combos might have existed at retail.

The problems really start showing up when people don't do proper research or submit info based on pictures they saw somewhere else or info they read elsewhere.

[nupoile]

Your links are very helpful.

The site you linked to, provides lots of information about theses games. They do things a little differently than RFG. INTV Funhouse is set up, like MG and others, to have one page per game. RFG has one page per variant. The difference being they get to lump all the info together and if they don't make it clear that 'this' label goes with 'that' box than, eh, oh well, all the info is on this one page, maybe its sorted, maybe not.

RFG, with the one page per variant style, needs to make sure the box, manual and game all go together. One per page. Those links, for example the Autoracing one, shows a page with all the boxes, manuals, overlays, and end labels. We can't tell which goes with which. There isn't even the same number of variants for boxes, manuals, and games. Presumably, since there are more boxes than games listed, some games had more than one box variant.

The only info I could deduce for certain, on my variant of Autoracing, is that it is a variant, and I could put [Hong Kong] as the title. There is no way to tell the year, the part number, or anything else really.

So, I guess, that brings up the question of submissions with very sparse data. Obviously we proved that these ones exist, so they have a right to be in the DB but are people okay with entries with so little data?


Also, I think, when searching for info on extremely niche topics, the internet might give you many results and references but are they all independent research? I worry about this, I think if one person puts up info on a topic unknown to most, others will certainly use that as a base for further study. I hope that first person was 100% correct.

This isn't to say I think INTV Funhouse is wrong in anyway, I just like to know I am adding only good info to RFG.

[techwizard]

shadow pointed me towards intvfunhouse when i was submitting intellivision info/scans a long time ago, it really helps but i get what you're saying about not knowing which boxes/manuals go with which carts. i think it's impossible to really know for sure for systems from that generation, just do the best you can. like you said it obviously exists in a form not currently in the database, so i don't see why it shouldn't have it's own entry even if the data is sparse. it does get a bit out of hand with intellivision though.

[Shadow Kisuragi]

This is starting to get into a discussion I had a long time ago about changing how we track variations here. There are many variants, especially for the older systems, that don't adhere to a 1-1 variation. Let's look at Combat for the Atari 2600:

5 Cartridge Variations in the DB (and a lot more not there)
4 Manual Variations in the DB (and at least 2 more not there)
3 Box Variations in the DB (and at least 1 more not there)

...cartridge alone, I own at least 6 variations of Combat. I literally had to give up trying to properly document them, because it was proving extremely difficult to match things when Atari didn't even bother trying.

When it comes to older systems that had multiple batches printed at different locations versus the modern production cycle, it becomes almost essential to track everything by component rather than by enforcing matched components like our database does. We try our best, and we can make educated guesses based on the trends of what are normally contained within or, like some efforts have tried, opening NIB versions to verify the contents, but it won't ever cover every variant possible. At that point, tracking them via Extra Media proves a much easier method of tracking variations, but you lose the granularity of variations with that. It's a very fine line to tread.