New Orleans

[Jagdiesel]

It's not like anybody expected it to be THIS bad. And a lot of people probably didn't have a good place to go and thought it was better to stay and wait it out. It's not like it's the first storm.

A friend of mine lives near new orleans and she didn't evacuate either. One of her reasons was 'we had a bad storm before and that went well, so we'll survive this one too'. Maybe not too smart, but understandable. I wouldn't be too fond of leaving my house behind either.

When they announced it was above a CAT3 hurricane, that should have sent off the "oh shit" sensors in peoples' heads.  Guess not..
I lived in Florida from 92-99.  I helped with the cleanup of Andrew.  I was in the Navy and went through several CAT1-3 hurricanes and know their strength.  Also, when I was stationed in Jacksonville and a warning came out, we hauled ass out.  
Guess you have a point but man I just don't get why these people think they are being slighted/screwed over...

[The Metamorphosing Leon]

Well I figure a lot of the people in the Ghetto's couldn't get out.

[TraderJake]

But... how could they know that the levvies would bust?  That is just shitty luck in the middle of a terrible situation.

When you design for a Category 3 storm, you have no guarantee at all that your levee will withstand a stupidly powerful Category 4 storm. There will always be a question of why the levees were designed for a category 3 rather than 4 (probably funding), and why President Bush cut funding on the building of levees that would withstand a cat 4 or 5 storm. It wasn't as though New Orleans has not suffered in the past. After a massive flood in 1927 of the Mississippi River, New Orleans built a levee system to keep the river out of the city. Thus, when the great flood of '37 happened, it was no where near as bad in New Orleans as it was elsewhere, such as in Cincinnati as evidenced in this photo:



I know after that flood a whole hell of a lot of things were done to Cincinnati and the Ohio River to ensure that it would never happen again. I suppose after this tragedy, the same thing will happen in New Orleans. It's just going to sadly be too late, and there is no guarantee that these improvements will 100% protect the city, as Cincinnatians can explain after the Mill Creek barrier dam failed during the flood of 67, and flooded the only flat area in the city.

[Tynstar]

When the levies where built the Army Core of Engineer determined it was too costly to build levies that could with stand cat 4 and 5 canes.  

And they say human life is priceless.

And Mother Nature always has a way to humble us humans. They can build bigger levies and one day those will fail as well.

[Izret101]

Are other countries send us aid or help ? I mean I only did a little searching on the web and could not find an article about this  

I was watching CNN earlier and they had Condi up there and she she kinda skited around the question of us saying no to foriegn aid.
The Gov is saying that we haven't said no to any foriegn aid but then FEMA is saying we also haven't accepted any.

Hell Sri Lanka wanted to send support to us.


As for the levies busting weren't they like 40-50+ years old anyways?
I have actually heard very little about the levies.
I did hear one guy try to say that the levies in one area didn't break due to a hole that got larger.
The hole had started after the water was already flowing over the top.

I'm no engineer but that makes NO friggin sense to me.
Once the water would start to hit a hole of any size it would immediately start rushing thru and making it larger.

[TraderJake]

I don't know when they were designed, but I do know that the levees that failed were only designed to withstand a category 3 storm. This was a high category 4 storm, so it is not that surprising that they would have failed. As for whether or not the hole started after water cleared the levee I do not know, it could be possible, but I do not think that this alone would cause a levee failure, but rather seepage caused a structural failure in the levee. There are many things that could have caused the levee to fail. If there was a small leak the pressure would have caused the leak to have a rather large flow rate, and as flow rate increases, pressure decreases in the system. This pressure drop could have torn away at the levee's ability to support itself; therefore there would be a failure. The other reason it could have failed could have been with they way levees work in general. Levees keep water back, but unless water moves elsewhere more flood water tries to move in, creating a swirling current that effectively acts much like a drill. This sometimes leads to a breach in the levee called a blew hole. To combat this, pumps are used to keep the swirling currents from forming.

One of the things about  levees is that like it or not, levees fail. Ask anyone in California what a levee breach and its recovery process is like. It's long and painful. To secure only the breach and stop the leak could take up to 2 to 4 weeks, and then there is the process of pumping out the floodwaters. It is not a quick fix. In two years when I take hydrology I'll be able to tell you more about this, but for right now my engineering base is not in the aforementioned, but rather transportation and basic structures.

[Sureshot]

Here's what Kanye West had to say:

http://rapidshare.de/files/4663690/kanye.avi.html

What the hell is he on about? The looks from the other guys are priceless!

[TraderJake]

That was priceless, and so is Mike Meyer's expression and disbelief. I think in the grand scheme of things the state and city are more to blame than the Feds. After all, it is not the Federal Government's responsibilty to make sure there are proper plans for these types of disasters. It would be a violation of a state's right for it to be otherwise. While the Feds can make laws regulating everyone, they can't exactly regulate just one muncipality. To be honest, I think this has been handled terribly by everyone. Louisana made it very obvious that their evacuation plan and disaster plan were subpar, and when it was apparent that the federal government would need to step in it was done too late. You can't just blame one person here, and I am sure that history will make that very certain.

People need to not worry now about who is to blame but rather how to make things right. Things will never be 'normal' in New Orleans again. As much as government needs to stay out of things, they need to make sure that New Orleans is never rebuilt, or that they pump enough money to the city and dedicate it specifically for flood protection. Since they appear to be leaning towards option two, they best make the most sophisticated protection system possible, as the geographic features of the city dictate it so.

I hope our government is aware that this WILL happen again. We need to put the money in protecting now so that we don't have this catastrophe later. Unfortunately, government despises allocating money for long term projects since the current politicians don't reap the benefits. Hopefully this disaster will change their views.

It appears as though the Superdome may have to be demolished due to structural damage. I hope that little fact makes it a little bit more clear how terrible this tragedy is. If that doesn't, I am sure the thousands of dead bodies will, and the tens of thousands of dead pets sure will help as possible. Humanity needs to learn that we are not invincible, and however great control we think we have over nature is only apparent.

[Tynstar]

People need to not worry now about who is to blame but rather how to make things right. Things will never be 'normal' in New Orleans again. As much as government needs to stay out of things, they need to make sure that New Orleans is never rebuilt, or that they pump enough money to the city and dedicate it specifically for flood protection. Since they appear to be leaning towards option two, they best make the most sophisticated protection system possible, as the geographic features of the city dictate it so.

It appears as though the Superdome may have to be demolished due to structural damage. I hope that little fact makes it a little bit more clear how terrible this tragedy is. If that doesn't, I am sure the thousands of dead bodies will, and the tens of thousands of dead pets sure will help as possible. Humanity needs to learn that we are not invincible, and however great control we think we have over nature is only apparent.

No atter what they build nature will break it down at some point. IMO

[NDiddy]

Here's what Kanye West had to say:

http://rapidshare.de/files/4663690/kanye.avi.html

What the hell is he on about? The looks from the other guys are priceless!

Pretty funny.

[Tynstar]

Here's what Kanye West had to say:

http://rapidshare.de/files/4663690/kanye.avi.html

What the hell is he on about? The looks from the other guys are priceless!

I couldn't even listen to the whole thing because he sounded so dumb.

[Jagdiesel]

I don't know if anyone heard the Celine Dion rant from Larry King Live but it was classic!  They played it on the radio this morning and I had to pull over from laughing.  What an idiot!!!
As far as the evac, what about those dozens of buses that sat empty prior to the hurricane?  Why not take those into the "ghettos" or poor areas and evac as many people as possible?  
As far as looting.  Well, if someone is getting the necessities (food, drink, clothing, supplies) it isn't looting, it is SURVIVAL.  But...if someone is getting loads of liquor, smokes, electronics, jewelry, cd's, or other nonessential items, that is theft (or looting) and is inexcusable.  And this holds true to ALL of those there, as I have seen the reports of police stealing from WalMart as well as the other people there.
I just wonder how the latest "get the f outta here" message will play out...

[Tynstar]

I don't know if anyone heard the Celine Dion rant from Larry King Live but it was classic!  They played it on the radio this morning and I had to pull over from laughing.  What an idiot!!!

OK I watched it and what a stupid ass. Thats all I can say. WTF does the war have to do with the rescue?  

Here is the link if anyone wants it,


http://www.crooksandliars...com/2005/09/04.html#a4793

[atari_wizard]

kanye west is an idiot. i too think mike wanted to strangle him. lol.

[NDiddy]

The celebrity outburst just get better and better lol. I couldnt stop laughing at celine dion.