Game Manual Archive?

[bombatomba]

tech has a strong point, though I don't think that any of us here are under the illusion of this not being a violation of copyright.  If you are, then let me assure you that this sort of activity could be seen as actionable by an IP holder.  However, taken to the letter of the law, any of the scans (and even likely the pics) in the database of this website could be seen as violation of US copyright law, seeing as it was designed to keep any and all from doing anything with their derivative work that a IP holder might not like.  I have zero problem with this, seeing as it is their property.  However, there is the issue of "Fair Use" that Shadow pointed out, and marketability.  The primary reason I believe that many of these archive websites are able to do what they do is entirely down to whether or not the property is marketable to the IP holder.  You bet that when Nintendo decides to start selling their old game manuals or old copies of Nintendo Power, Replacement Docs and Retromags will be getting the first cease and desist emails.  Until then the big N knows where they are and whether or not they are attempting to make money from the copyright IP.

[techwizard]

exactly, that's what i'm getting at, is it worth going to all the bother while running the risk that the site might get slapped with a cease & desist? like bomba said, even the existing scans could be a grey area. if they jumped on the site for a more obvious infraction like complete manual scans they might get upset about all the other scans that aren't such a big deal while they're at it. i can't imagine any company having issue with cover, disc, manual front scans, or others like that as long as that's all there is here, as they hardly display anything more than you could find just by browsing any store without buying. you can bet they would take issue with complete content of manual scans where everything is put out there though.

[bombatomba]

Again, excellent points, but I think you also touched on my point as well, and maybe something we should focus on exclusively (if we do go forward with this).  I also noticed that the end part of my post disappeared, which is to be expected when you have fingers as sausage-like as mine.

The rest of my original point was that these websites won't receive cease and desist letters.  Why?  Because they are fan sites almost exclusively interested in archiving their favorite pastime and nothing else.  Basically performing the same function as a private museum but with free admission.  This is why there are so many of these websites out there and one of the reasons they have survived for so long.  Another reason would be they are honest and front facing about it, placing caveats regarding their creed and intentions for all to view.  If a IP holder doesn't want their stuff displayed?  They offer to take it down immediately when contacted.  Something that we could emulate.

However, there is a question of out intentions with our database.  Is it for archiving or simply to serve as a tool for collecting (one of the primary functions of the website)?  Personally I've always seen it as an archive tool, though I imagine many do not.  However, we do have a strong retro focus, so maybe we can start with that.  When I think of manual scans I want to view I think about the retro stuff.  You know, day zero up until the PSX era.  Stuff that you cannot get in stores.  Stuff that companies don't even offer for free with the digital stuff they sell (unless you buy on the PC and on GoG), right?  Perhaps we should focus on the retro stuff only, at least for a while, and see where it leads us.

I think I've pretty much covered what I want to cover with this topic.  But I'd love to hear comments, thoughts, and feelings and such from everyone else.  I think if we would plan to do this we need a strong majority.

[bombatomba]

So I've messed around and have a few examples:

cb7 format (1.81MB)

cbz format (1.83MB)

pdf format (2.53MB)

Keep in mind that these were scanned in at 150dpi and could look better.  300dpi would look  much better, but will pretty much double the file size.  I don't have a preference on a file format, but due to ease of creation (at least for me) and a smaller file size I prefer the CB formats.  Sure we loose a bit of compatibility by not going with pdf files, but anyone that has a zipping utility and the ability to view file extensions can create a cbz or cb7.

[leej07]

Atariage has scans of many Atari manuals, and they clearly haven't been sued for copyright infringement.

[Duke.Togo]

I know NintendoAge has a large library of scanned manuals that they host. Perhaps Dain would be worth talking to on this. Also, I thought that a while back we had some sort of agreement with him for sharing of images? Perhaps he'd be willing to work with us to fill in each other's gaps.

Also, some companies already have downloadable PDF versions of their manuals online now. Would we have to require our own custom scans, or would using these directly be acceptable?

[Shadow Kisuragi]

We have a soft agreement with Dain for NintendoAge, and the Atari manuals are past their copyrights.

[Duke.Togo]

I thought copyrights were valid for 95 years past publication date in the US?

[Shadow Kisuragi]

It's a lot more complicated than that. In any case, I think it's just a case of "no one cares" for it, and hoping it's considered Fair Use.