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RF Generation Message Board | Gaming | Community Playthroughs (Moderators: techwizard, singlebanana, wildbil52, GrayGhost81, Disposed Hero, MetalFRO) | June 2018 Shmup Club - R-Type 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: June 2018 Shmup Club - R-Type  (Read 5761 times)
Square_Air
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« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2018, 09:17:18 AM »

It's June now, so I guess I'll share my results and experiences with R-Type and a few of its ports.



Arcade - 1,088,300 - 2-ALL - 20HZ Autofire - ShmupMAME v4.2 [Japan]



This was a pretty clean 1 life clear, but there were a few small mistakes made. I also didn't go for any stage 7 garbage room checkpoint milking, so that would be the last major scoring step to work on, but it definitely complicates things. Overall I really enjoyed this game. The force is so satisfying to use once you figure out how to control it, it gives you an interesting tool set to tackle the problems this game throws at you. The level design is solid and all the levels are quite distinct from one another in gameplay and aesthetics. There's no shortage of opportunities to use the force to your advantage (especially since it absorbs shots), and while the DNA laser is definitely the best weapon, the blue and yellow weapons still have some good uses throughout the game. The music (and sound design) is also pretty good, with the stage 7 theme definitely being my favourite.

On the flipside, there's a few safespots that are a little dissapointing like the stage 7 & final boss, but they do require you to have sufficient upgrades. Being less than maxed out at the final boss (2 bits + force) means you don't get your free pass and actually have to do some dodging, so it's kind of a reward. There's a few points of the game that could have a bit less dead air, but that's a pretty minor complaint as the game actually has a pretty good pace. Checkpoint recovery is unforgiving, but not as bad as some of the other games released around the same time. There are a few checkpoints that are basically an immanent game over unless you pull some good RNG or know exactly how to handle it. I never really learned any checkpoint recovery and just put that time into working on not dying at all so I wouldn't be faced with that silliness. I guess checkpoint milking being not my favourite scoring method is also a complaint.

The 2-5 boss is the True Last Boss of R-Type. This boss stands out from the rest as its actions are governed by RNG instead of a fixed pattern, and it's not pretty. If it pulls a passive or moderate pattern you thank the stars and kiss your lucky rabbit's foot for the game showing mercy upon you, but if it pulls an aggressive pattern you have to move very quickly and precisely. I pick up an extra speed up for this section to give me a chance of being fast enough to out maneuver it just in case It gets aggressive. You only get one shot at this, and at 30 minutes in to the game it really sucks to die here since recovering here is painful and requires good RNG. I practiced this boss a lot (only behind stage 6) so I could have a chance to save my run if the RNG decided I wasn't fit to exist anymore, but I could only get about ~50-60% consistency at my best. I got an aggressive pattern on the less threatening 1-5 boss, but Luckily I was granted passage with a moderate 2-5 boss pattern in this run, and I was able to still make all the tight movements in stage 2-6 without getting nervous and crashing into a wall. Once I was in the stage 2-7 safespot I pretty much knew the run was complete, but having missed the safespot before due to having the extra speed made it pretty scary to get into place, but it was such a relief once I knew I made it.

R-Type is good. I'm even interested in checking out R-Type 2 eventually and attempting to learn its supposedly more brutal second loop. Glad to have played this.

I also have spent a little bit of time with some of the ports so far, and even plan to check out a few more throughout the month.



Sega Master System - 367,200 - 2-1 - Autofire Off - Fusion 3.64 [World]

This was a much more modest clear with me not managing to no miss the first loop, but a clear is a clear. I grew up with a Master System (with controllers that stop working if you nudge the cable the wrong way Tongue) so I have little bit of a soft spot for this version, even though I never played it until a couple weeks ago. It's pretty faithful for an 8-bit port I must admit, but it's not without its flaws. Sprite flickering and slowdown bog this version down, but it's far from unplayable. The music, graphics, and gameplay a step down from the Arcade version, but it's still R-Type so it sorta gets a thumbs up from me, but it's an inferior version in my eyes.

I went in after my 2-ALL of Arcade and figured I could just breeze through this, but SMS R-Type had a few tricks up its sleeve that I didn't expect. As I previously mentioned, stage 4 is much harder in this game due to the low shot cap and unforgiving hitboxes. Stage 6 on the other hand is way easier in this version since you have so much more room to move around. The change on the final boss really got me for a while though. The fact that you can't hold back and be safe during the whole fight is easy enough to manage with a few planned movements (which I still messed up on and died once...), but getting your force inside the boss is extremely finicky in this version. I spent a lot of time with my force just bouncing right off him and me not being able to figure out why. Eventually I figured out that you need to be slightly below the middle line to get it in the mouth, which is bizarre since the sprite would suggest that you needed to be a bit higher, but that's just not the case.

The high point of this run was that I was able to recover on stage 8 after a death and defeat the final boss while reaction dodging all over the place (and cursing at the screen Roll Eyes). My run ended early in 2-1.



PC Engine/Turbografx 16 - 608,500 - 2-1 - Autofire On - Ootake 2.68 [USA]

The first loop was a no miss, and I used autofire since the TG16 obviously has built in auto. I actually don't have much to say about this version, but that's a good thing. It's a very faithful port, and basically everything I said about the Arcade version applies here. There are a few key differences here though. First is the screen unfortunately scrolls up and down to compensate for the different resolution, and it seems like there's also a bit of extra space past the edges of the visible screen as certain spawnkills don't work. There's an extra phase added to the 6th boss, and it's kind of neat. The soundtrack is a little different, but It holds up to the original. It seems like the Spinning turret wheel has been slightly changed, as using my arcade method for it got me killed in 2-1 and caused me to game over via chain death.

If you're not playing the arcade version (or an arcade accurate port), this is the best alternative.


And that's all I got for now. I'm looking into the Game Boy version still and thinking about checking out the PS1 version, so i'm not quite done yet with R-Type.

The Bydo empire can go suck eggs.  Cool
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 09:30:29 AM by Square_Air » Logged
MetalFRO
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« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2018, 11:55:31 AM »

Wow, I really appreciate the very detailed analysis, Square_Air! Sounds like you had pretty good command of the game's various levels, and have enjoyed yourself, playing through the 3 versions. I would definitely recommend you check out R-Types, as I believe that's the most accurate arcade port you'll find on an older console, even more so than the Turbo port. As for the Game Boy version, there are a couple caveats. First, it's shorter than the other ports, at only 6 stages. I don't think the Game Boy could have handled Stage 4's "trails" and large number of sprites at once, so they skipped it. They also skipped Stage 5, which doesn't hurt my feelings. Also, there are some weird collision detection problems. In Stage 2, for example, you can't get too close to the ceiling, because the ship's hitbox sometimes appears to either be a large rectangle around the ship, rather than the ship itself, but some of that may be the collision area of the ceiling, that it looks like you can fly into a certain area, but you can't really. In other instances, it looks like you can clip through some walls slightly, so the ship's nose can narrowly scrape some walls without registering, so in Stage 4 of the port, you can squeeze through some of the tighter spaces. Also, having not played R-Type in some while, I was able to squeeze out a "2CC" on that version, continuing only once in both loops, so I suspect you'll make quick work of that version. Still, it's reasonably competent, given the limitations of the GB.

As for my own play experience so far, I did that Game Boy clear, and then moved on to R-Type Dimensions on the PS3. That version is gorgeous, with nicely detailed graphics, and a good use of the 16:9 aspect ratio. I'm also enjoying the reimagined soundtrack, even though I like the original. It controls well, and I like that you can press the triangle button (if memory serves) to switch the graphics and audio, on the fly, back to the arcade original look and sound. I also like the fact that, once you reach a stage, you can select to start from that stage to practice and try and get better at it. I've been using that to practice Stage 5, which I've had some trouble with. There's also an "Infinite Mode" where you just respawn right where you died, which is nice for continuity, but without the specific checkpoints where you can recover, it's awful hard to do much more than die.

Maybe the more experienced folks here will know this, but in my practicing of Stage 5, I noticed that you can trigger an interesting power-up situation. After you defeat the first two "snake" enemies, and grab the speed-up, if you quickly take out the head of the third "snake" enemy, and then use only your regular shots to destroy its tail-end piece, when it comes up from the bottom of the screen, instead of a second speed-up, you'll get a blue power-up icon. I haven't been able to trigger that with 100% consistency, but it seems like that's the way to do it. Does anyone know if there are other instances in the game, whereby you can trigger a power-up change, based on specific criteria like that?
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Duke.Togo
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« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2018, 09:58:58 PM »

Excellent play there Square_Air!

I hope to squeak in a little time to play this soon, and I'm curious to try out a few different versions. The concept of catching the bullets with the Force is something that I have to work my brain into. My instinct is to always dodge.
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MetalFRO
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« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2018, 10:12:34 AM »

Excellent play there Square_Air!

I hope to squeak in a little time to play this soon, and I'm curious to try out a few different versions. The concept of catching the bullets with the Force is something that I have to work my brain into. My instinct is to always dodge.

And this is one of the things that made R-Type so unique, forward-thinking, and groundbreaking. It's part of why the series has had such lasting appeal, because the Force Pod mechanics are such an integral part of the game's design implementation. It's why R-Type Leo isn't as fondly remembered, and why the original game was ported to nearly everything during its heyday.

QUICK NOTE: I updated the original post to also mention R-Type DX on the Game Boy Color. Not sure why I forgot to mention it before, seeing as how I bought it as a new release, but that's an acceptable way to play the original port as well. There's the original GB version on the cart, as well as a colorized version. I will probably give that one a go as well, to compare to the original GB port, and see if they made any tweaks, other than adding the color aspect, to improve upon the GB port's shortcomings.
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« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2018, 08:42:23 AM »

I put some time into R-Type again last night via the R-Types set on PlayStation. After having concentrated on Dimensions for a while, I think I can safely say that in some ways, the newer iteration is easier, because of the widescreen aspect ration, and the fact that they retooled the game around that a bit, so you can see enemies coming further away. However, some stuff isn't as easy. Playing the first boss last night, it took exactly 2 full charge blasts to take out the first boss, whereas in Dimensions, I seem to remember it taking at least 3. I can consistently reach Stage 4 on a single credit, and sometimes get to the boss, but I haven't quite nailed down my strategy for that boss fight yet, in the original arcade version. It's a reasonably easy fight in Dimensions, once you know where it's going to go on-screen, so it's a matter of translating that knowledge to the original arcade game and the 4:3 aspect ratio. Unfortunately, I won't have a chance to play again until as early as tomorrow evening, but I'm digging the fact that I've been able to make this much progress in the game, especially after usually hitting a wall toward the end of Stage 3, with the battleship. I'm hopeful to see the end of the first loop by the end of this month, if not sooner, depending on how much time I can dedicate. I'm also "this close" (pinches fingers together) to buying the SMS version to play.
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98PaceCar
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« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2018, 10:23:59 AM »

Decided to jump in and try my hand at this. R-TYPE has been a constant thorn in my side for a long time and apparently is still. For some reason, I do a lot better with bullet hell style games than R-TYPE. That said, I managed to get to the second stage boss last night before wanting to throw my controller in frustration. I love the style and artwork, especially on the 360, but I've just never found myself interested in playing for long. Falling back to completely unpowered on a death just sucks the fun out of it for me.

Beautiful game, but not my thing.
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MetalFRO
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« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2018, 02:33:06 PM »

Decided to jump in and try my hand at this. R-TYPE has been a constant thorn in my side for a long time and apparently is still. For some reason, I do a lot better with bullet hell style games than R-TYPE. That said, I managed to get to the second stage boss last night before wanting to throw my controller in frustration. I love the style and artwork, especially on the 360, but I've just never found myself interested in playing for long. Falling back to completely unpowered on a death just sucks the fun out of it for me.

Beautiful game, but not my thing.

98PaceCar, thank you for jumping in and giving it a go. I know R-Type can be brutal, and itís not for everyone, so I understand the desire to give up. Hereís the thing I think is important to remember: this game is all about memorizing enemy patterns and figuring out the best path through a stage. Until I fully had a grasp on that, I always had a hard stop at Stage 3. I couldnít, for the life of me, wrap my head around how you could take out the battleship, without being reckless. In tandem with the path memorization is that the weapons youíre given at any given time are usually whatís best for whatís coming next. There are a couple potential red herrings thrown in, where one weapon may not be the best choice, but usually, I have found that when the game offers you a weapon power up, itís a good idea to at least try it out. I would also recommend no more than 1 speed up through most of the game, and 2 at most. Any more than that, and quick dodging of fast bullets usually becomes quick death as I dodge one obstacle, only to go careening into another. Persistence pays off as well. For years, I was stuck in Stage 3, because I would hit a wall and get frustrated, then just quit. It might feel like youíre not making progress, but every time you die, if you can think about what led up to that, and identify what you could have done differently, you can internalize those things, and slowly begin to build not only a pathway in your mind, but also some associated muscle memory to help guide you through further each time. I can consistently reach Stage 5 now, and usually get to the boss, after getting back into the game, and only playing again for a couple weeks.

I would also suggest trying another version, perhaps one thatís less hectic, like the SMS or Game Boy ports. I beat the GB version on 2 credits, both loops, after just a few nights of dedicated play. The SMS port, though I havenít played it myself, is reportedly a bit slower paced and has fewer enemies than the arcade game. That might be a good way to ease into it more, learn the level layouts, and get a better feel for the flow of the game. That helped me learn the levels a bit more, by playing the Game Boy port, because I got a general sense of the structure and enemy placement, which partially translated to the more accurate versions.

Switching gears, does anybody else do the OCD thing where, after beating a boss, you move the R-9 as close as possible to where it moves automatically when it tallies the score? I hit it on the nose last night when playing, and it put a big smile on my face. Iím such a dork  slick
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 04:24:34 PM by MetalFRO » Logged

98PaceCar
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« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2018, 01:29:46 PM »

I haven't completely given up yet. It's a dance R-Type and I do every few years it seems. I feel like it shouldn't beat me so badly, so I keep coming back. Thanks for the advice. I'll see what I can do later this week once I clear out a few repairs I need to complete.
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MetalFRO
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« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2018, 08:35:26 AM »

I seem to be stuck. I know what the proper path is for Stage 4, but for some reason, the occasional randomness of some enemy movements, and my own inability to stick to the path 100% of the time is seeing me languish in Stage 4. Some of it is that I'm splitting my focus, trying to listen to something else on TV while playing the game, so my attention isn't totally dedicated to the game, so I know that's a factor. I'm hoping, by the end of this week, so have Stage 4 "perfected" and Stage 5 largely mastered as well, so I can finally move on to Stage 6, and begin to tackle its patterns. I've been forcing myself to play through the entire game on a single credit so I can get better at the early stages and have them down to a science, and aside from some frustration when I make silly mistakes, I think it's helping me find a rhythm. I don't think I'll do more than the first loop this month, simply because I think it will take the rest of the month to progress to the point where I can complete all 8 stages in the first loop. That's okay with me, since I'm already farther than I had ever been before, and have a much better feel for the game than I have in the past.
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MetalFRO
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« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2018, 10:02:24 PM »

Okay, now that itís the middle of the month, I canít wait any longer to share this. Here is a ď2-ALLĒ from shmup Player extraordinaire, ex_mosquito. This is a great reference point for good paths through each stage, including a couple places that seemed unorthodox to me, but work surprisingly well. Also, I know Iíve advocated that itís a good idea to pick up most of the weapons as theyíre handed out, but this run uses the helix/DNA laser almost entirely throughout, and itís a brilliant way to clear the game. Note the boss milking, and the fact that, while it isnít a no-miss, itís awful close, and itís a really talented showing either way. Also of note is the judicious use of the Force Pod in an offensive manner. Heís also not afraid to attach it to the back of the R-9 when it makes sense.



This is making me want to try a helix laser run, and shift my strategy.
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Pam
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« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2018, 07:16:30 AM »

Finally had a chance to play this. I'd never played an R-Type before and first impressions, through both playing and what I've heard, would indicate it's not really my type of shooter. I'm not a fan of any game you have to memorize in order to succeed at and I also really prefer vertical scrolling to horizontal.

I do like the enemy design (what little I've seen it so far). My biggest complaint right now is hoe slow the ship moves. I'm finding it very difficult to get used to the lack of speed compared to all the shooters I'm used to.

I will give it another shot later though.
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MetalFRO
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« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2018, 08:14:59 AM »

Thanks for the input, Pam. Yeah, one of the devices a lot of early shooters used was speed as a power-up, which is part of the quarter-muncher aspect of a game like that. Also, the memorization is a bit of a sticking point for many, but it is a key component of the game. The first 2 stages can be down without much memorization, and one could say that Stage 3 can as well, though there are a couple spots where you at least need to know when and where the battleship is moving, in order to ensure survival. However, with Stage 4 especially, you need to know when fast moving enemies will appear and what their trajectory is, because they leave a trail of obstacles in their path that you have to shoot through, or risk destroying your ship. Combined with fast moving bullets and a lot of enemies, and it gets hairy fast, unless you have a predetermined path where you can eliminate most foes before they even have an opportunity to take you on. Even if you have that path memorized, Stage 4 is still quite difficult.
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Addicted
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« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2018, 08:56:36 AM »

The ship seems to move faster vertically than horizontally. Stage 4 is a beast but can be overcome with enough practice. Keep at it!  Smiley
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Stephen Kick: ďThe thing about classic games was that they were the first for an entire generation. Successive works are going to be important to individuals and even to groups, but never to a whole generation in the same way.Ē
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« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2018, 08:32:32 PM »

Crap I forgot to start..
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MetalFRO
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« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2018, 10:19:40 PM »

Crap I forgot to start..

LOL, thatís okay. Itís never too late to start Wink

http://imgur.com/gallery/p7JxGGk

I realized that I hadnít shared any scores yet. This isnít my highest score yet, but I got it earlier this evening via R-Types on the PlayStation.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 11:42:52 PM by MetalFRO » Logged

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